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Post by gbsilk on Mar 18, 2009 13:39:47 GMT 10
 40 shards - 1 legendary healing weapon. These will apparently only drop from hard mode bosses. This means that our collection of them will be quite limited (I am not betting on us smashing down a heap of hard mode bosses any time soon). Consequently I think we should figure out now how we are going to deal with them. General rolls - loot list - limited to 1 person so we can actually get one? What do you all think? |
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Post by omelie on Mar 19, 2009 10:00:05 GMT 10
Limited to one person and I would like people to put their names forward as a sign of interest in eventually obtaining one.
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Post by Rakshasi on Mar 19, 2009 20:00:45 GMT 10
I'm certainly going to go for one.
We were saying we'd probably have to wait until it went live before we knew that the real drop rates were... but I'd hate to tell deserving players that they'd effectively not get one and we were only going to try for one person or two... something of that nature.
I stand for everyone who wants one trying to get one, even if it takes us all three years. I doubt if it's a very hard thing to get... that it'll be absolutely necessary for the content.
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Post by Dansus on Mar 20, 2009 6:22:27 GMT 10
Why not make a thread on the forums where people can make a post to show if they're interested. This will let the officers know who is keen on getting one and then they can make the decision on who should get one first. With an item like this normal loot rules wouldn't work. Unless it turns out that the bosses drop more than 1 shard.
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Post by thoragk on Mar 20, 2009 6:38:34 GMT 10
If anybody saw me make like a bandit in Naxx last night, it's only fair this is opened to Offspec rolls  .. Ok - serious point. Does it require a metric butt-tonne of other mats? If so, I'd prefer to see a person who is serious (or has started) collecting other mats stick their hand up as a candidate. Once a few hands are in the air, /random 100 for the first piece that drops. Once a person has 1 piece, they're defaulted all the other to ensure at least 1 legendary could be made ASAP. |
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Post by apollor on Mar 20, 2009 9:44:44 GMT 10
Given the current content difficulty, and ability to get on top of it in a fairly short time period with just a little bit of focus. I should expect that the first few clears of Ulduar will present a few wipe-fests and then we'll be onto the Heroic stuff. Take a look at our Naxx 25 and Maly 25 efforts. It really only took a few weeks to go from 3 or 4 bosses in H Naxx. To full clears in a night achievable level. Are we really expecting Ulduar to be "that much harder" ? I expect the fights will bring some new challenges. But are we talking Kel'Thuzad hard, or Sarth+3D hard? - Time will tell I guess.
Looks like these are drops from Heroic bosses in Ulduar, and "chance to drop from 10m?".
Haven't looked, but how many bosses in Ulduar raid?
Also, add to the fact that to craft the weapon you appear to have to place it mid fight (at a specific time?) then complete the fight. A condition is that you have to kill off 1 of the helpers for the fight (thereby making it harder I guess).
The process sounds very much like crafting the blade you had to place in front of Onyxia for her to breath upon, and then use on her corpse. What was that item called again?
Having a Legendary weapon, more importantly an actual healing one would be pretty darn cool. The fastest way to get them tho is single person focus on the shards, otherwise you end up with 5 or 6 people with 20 shards each and no-one ever achieving the end goal.
So yeah, as a healer main player that would -love- to get one. You bet I'm keen to work for this. Who should get it first in guild? Well I'm biased, clearly _I_ should. :-)
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Post by gbsilk on Mar 20, 2009 11:14:24 GMT 10
I believe Apo that they actually only drop from the Hard Mode Bosses (ie the equivalent of Sarth + drakes). Given there are some fights that don't have a hard mode (and others that will be impossible) I wouldn't expect that many shards to drop. In fact I think we would be lucky to get 3 per raid (maybe) - I don't know if it will only be hard mode heroic bosses but either way its only the achievement mode that will activate them. This is why I believe we need to focus on one or two people to get this - it will take probably 4 months to get the pieces together. Raks - I am sure that it is not necessary. I am equally sure that if we spread the shards over 6-8 people that we will not get one this expansion if the current information goes live. Dan - I thought this WAS the place to indicate an interest  Now I honestly have no idea how we go about doing this - I don't believe it should be open season though. In my view that will just ensure that we don't get one at all |
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Post by sidara2 on Mar 20, 2009 12:48:35 GMT 10
The process sounds very much like crafting the blade you had to place in front of Onyxia for her to breath upon, and then use on her corpse. What was that item called again? Quel'Serrar. I back up the 'nominate a person' though. I'm not interested (obviously), but it'd be cool just to see someone go through and get it made. |
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Post by Nephrael on Mar 20, 2009 15:10:21 GMT 10
Hunter weapon.
Put me down too.
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Post by Dansus on Mar 20, 2009 18:50:01 GMT 10
lol this can be the thread then  |
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Post by baddemon on Mar 21, 2009 16:41:52 GMT 10
was that the Pally tier 8?! I have to say, that's the least rediculous set for you guys yet. Anyway, definitely needs to go to a dedicated raider, who plans on spending the cast majority of their time in the healing spec.
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nige
Noobie
Posts: 8
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Post by nige on Mar 23, 2009 16:53:12 GMT 10
I would obviously love this, it would go great with my pretty blue hair. However, as we have to work towards this as a guild, I think we need to work out, with who it will most benefit the guild. I totally agree that we need to focus on getting 1 or 2 first and then as the fights become easier for us we can work towards getting more. The challenge will be in all us heally types putting aside our own avaricious thoughts and really nutting out how it will best serve the guild.
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Post by seveneves on Mar 23, 2009 23:08:16 GMT 10
Well, a few people were talking about this on vent the other night and I thought I'd post the main point of the thoughts here.
For one, no one actually knows anything at all about this item. Nothing.
So let's assume there are two options.
1. The weapon has great stats, but does nothing else.
In this case, the rolls should be open to any main-spec healer in the raid at the time the shard drops. No one should have preference, regardless of rank or attendance - we are not a hardcore guild (well, not to my knowledge).
2. This is the tough one - The weapon is an essential part of a given fight.
This means it either summons a boss, or casts a required debuff on a boss, or one of any other number of 'essential' raid functions. In this instance, we need to work out some way of obtaining one as early as possible. One idea was a vote by each member of the raid, at the time the shard drops, as to who gets it. The idea is that some people will vote for themselves and the rest will vote for probably one or two people who are regularly there.
In any case, lets not get worked up over it just yet. Wait till the patch comes, find out exactly what it's for and then start the discussion again.
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Post by gbsilk on Mar 23, 2009 23:44:37 GMT 10
well the on use effect is know and its a healing effect. I am certain it won't be necessary for a given fight. It will be a legendary healing weapon though. So B.I.S this expansion at least
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Post by apollor on Mar 24, 2009 9:40:12 GMT 10
I'm sure I'd seen a link to the item somewhere the other day, it might have just been a made up link though, looking today confirms it's still all a bit secret. However there is comment on the "equip" functionality as being: "Val'anyr Hammer of Ancient Kings - Equip Effect -- Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed." Interestingly there is an existing trinket (Scarab Brooch from Viscidius) in the game that has this very effect (as a USE not CHANCE effect), curious if it will be nerfed in place of this weapon. Also curious is wether or not (like the Brooch) Blessing of Ancient Kings is not applied for each tick of HoTs, it will be a significantly better item for Paladins and Shamans than it will be for Priests (who also gain no benefit to PW:S from the Blessing of Ancient Kings) and Druids. Let's nope this is a level playing field. There isn't any comment I can see about this item being needed for any boss encounters. There is the requirement to forge the item during an encounter however. "Assembling 40 Fragments and taking them to the Archivum begins a quest to finish the hammer." "The quest to finish Val’anyr requires you to throw the unfinished mace into Yogg-Saron’s mouth while he’s casting a certain spell." “This can only be completed in Heroic mode and only if at least one Ulduar Watcher is not assisting you.” This clause has several interesting implications. - It means Val’anyr is a 25-man item only. 10-man raiders will not have access to this item if the current PTR reflects how the fight will go live.
- It means that the Yogg-Saron encounter does in fact have “hard modes”- 5 full difficulty levels that are modulated by how many of the Watchers you kill before engaging him.
- Leaving at least one of the Watchers up is necessary for the Val’anyr quest completion.
Thankfully it's just 1 watcher you leave up. Sounds like Sarth+1D. Who knows what this means in terms of difficulty. The good thing is, to get 40 shards together we're going to have to have run it for some time and we'll have ample chances to practice this fight with watcher(s) up. As for the stats, until we see the item ripped from the game files and posted on WowHead it will be hard to compare it to other items being added. I really don't expect the stats to be "that much better" than other items at an equivalent item level. The epeen value on this item is simply the fact that you've managed to get an item with an Orange item link. Which -is- very cool of course. :-) The only real issue I have with this legendary is it's not hard work for 1 person to achieve the item. It's hard work for 25 people over and over to get just 1 of the them. I would have much preferred to have a 25 string quest chain that requires you to revisit and kill the Heroic bosses of all Northrend content (including the raids) obtaining quest drops from the end bosses, as well as some crafting requirements. Bring together 25 titan steal bars and a bunch of other stuff etc. And then go through the encounter to forge the weapon. This way, any one person could work to get the weapon over time get all their stuff together and then front up to a raid and finish it off. Blizz really need to get over the concept of "rare is cool" - and give everyone a chance if they can put in the hours. Yes I believe that everyone who finished the quest chain in time, and was on the battle field (i.e. in the general vicinity of AQ) should have gotten the Scarab Lord title. 1 per realm is just stupid - It just means that you where the greedy fool that clicked the gong and robbed the glory from all the others that had worked just as hard as you to get there... It really didn't come down to effort at all, just plain blind luck to have the least lag, least sleep to bang the gong.  -Apo |
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Post by seveneves on Mar 24, 2009 11:29:19 GMT 10
well the on use effect is know and its a healing effect. I am certain it won't be necessary for a given fight. It will be a legendary healing weapon though. So B.I.S this expansion at least In that case, in my opinion, we have no right to ask our guildies to decide on one or two people to get preference. Having one would be cool, but it sounds like there's no great guild benefit from it. “This can only be completed in Heroic mode and only if at least one Ulduar Watcher is not assisting you.” This clause has several interesting implications. - Leaving at least one of the Watchers up is necessary for the Val’anyr quest completion.
Thankfully it's just 1 watcher you leave up. Sounds like Sarth+1D. Who knows what this means in terms of difficulty. The good thing is, to get 40 shards together we're going to have to have run it for some time and we'll have ample chances to practice this fight with watcher(s) up. -Apo Just to clarify, it sounds like this is actually the inverse of the Sarth fight. Sounds like the Ulduar watchers are helpers, from what you quoted in the first line. So rather than killing off drakes, you probably tell x number of watchers to just sit back and stay out of the fight. Not very important, but thought I'd just point that out. |
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Post by seveneves on Mar 24, 2009 11:45:43 GMT 10
Just had another thought. We could just treat the shards like other loot on the loot list. I'm not sure if we can have more than just boss and tiered lists, but we could just treat it as tiered loot or something. It might be interesting to incorporate it into one of the existing lists - means people will have to sacrifice something to get it. I dunno, I just don't like giving preference to something that is only going to be best in slot and no real benefit to everyone else who has to pass on it.
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Post by sidara2 on Mar 24, 2009 12:31:03 GMT 10
Just had another thought. We could just treat the shards like other loot on the loot list. Not in favour of this. The last thing we want is people hanging back on getting loot that is potentially a significant upgrade because they want to suicide on a part for a legendary item. Getting loot isn't just about people wearing shiny purples. If Healer A is gimping him/herself to stay at the top of the list, then he/she becomes a raid liability. Yes it'd be nice if people were sensible, but people aren't always sensible. Edit: and this also could lead to 10 people having 3 shards each or whatever - it'd be no better than '/roll if you're interested'. |
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Post by baddemon on Mar 24, 2009 13:30:54 GMT 10
Well, if it's anything like Thunderfury, then we'll probably REALLY want one for the raid. If it's just some extra spell power and MP5, then let's open it to everyone to roll on. We'll probably NEVER get one, but at least it will be fair, right?
If it is like Thunderfury, in that it has an uber effect that even works against raid bosses, then I suggest we do a quasi-blind vote everytime one of these drops (we're obviously working under the assumption that they don't drop to often, so this shouldn't be tedious). If the majority believes that the tokens should continually go to the same person, then great for him/her and great for the guild. If the majority wants to pass them around, then that is what will happen.
Items like this have always been about your guild coming together as a team. If we decide our team will be happier without one, so be it. On another note - Thunderfuy required a lot of mats to be gathered, but the main limiting factor was get the one quest item to drop. I believe Blizz is making it more like they did with the Eternals, where you have to collect a bunch of pieces and put it together so that you don't raid for years and never get one to drop. If we raid Ulduaar continuously, and give the shards to just a few people at a time, I would be that we'll get one, maybe even two or three depending on how fast we progress.
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Post by apollor on Mar 24, 2009 14:09:40 GMT 10
Unsure if they are Boss or Raid helpers. The fact that the quest requires you to leave "at least 1 up" implies it's there to hinder you and not help ;-). But of course.. it could mean that you need to protect one from being killed. i.e. get the boss down before they all die. Which is a more interesting idea :-) Have to see I guess.
As I indicated before the issue I see with handing them around is that you end up in the situation where no-one could get enough together to get the item.
Consider that the raid instance has maybe 6 bosses. We know there's at least Iron Council, Frayer, this dude for the mace, and a couple of others we've heard about. And just suppose they -all- drop shards. You're still looking at 7 or 8 full clears to get enough shards together for just 1 of these things.
The indication is that in a raid with a makeup of at least 1/2 the people in naxx25 gear, you should be able to "start" into Ulduar, so... maybe 1 or 2 bosses at best on first attempts? depending on just how hard it is. So this extends out the time it would take etc. I'm expecting these bosses to be more like Void Reaver/Solarios/Alar fights... they are going to take some time to get through. I could be wrong *shrug*, but It's not going to be like this mini-boss stuff we're clearing in naxx at present. These are going to be real boss fights again.
I think we're realistically looking at 4 to 5 months of raids (since you can only kill each boss once a week) if only 1 person was receiving the shards.
If you spread the shards to just 1 other person that's 8 to 9 months. 3 people is 12 to 15 months, potentially before any -one- person could get there.
Also, it's not like you can pug for these things.. there isn't a guild on realm that would give up a shard to a pugger. So you're only way to score these is guild runs.
Whereas if you focus them on one person, it will still mean we can get say 3 together in about a year, but by the third person two ppl would already have them - and since it's likely to be best in slot item right? then that person is no longer rolling on weapon loot drops as well.
Just thinking out loud really, but basically even with focus this is not something you can put together in a short time, but aiming to reduce the time to completion for each person going for it I think would be the best way to go.
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Post by gbsilk on Mar 24, 2009 14:29:55 GMT 10
I tend to agree Sid - I think people are doing this now already. Holding on to their spot - passing on even best in slot items (eg Soul of the Dead - not that I am complaining about getting it though) - trying to claim gear as "off-spec" when its really not - and I am not sure why.
I think we do have the right to ask people not to roll Sev, just not to tell them not to roll. I would rather see someone get one than no-one (even if that someone is not me). Consequently I am prepared to pass on all the shards if as a result we get a mace. I am not going to do that unilaterally though. If its a free for all then I will be trying my hardest to get it myself.
It would need to be a voluntary, group decision and I am not going to say to anyone that they can't roll. I am asking the guild as a whole if we are capable / willing to come to some arrangement by which one of our regular, consistent healers gets a legendary weapon.
I actually think Apo the more interesting question is if the shielding is on effective healing or total healing because at 7k hps and 50% overheal its potentially a big number...
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Post by apollor on Mar 24, 2009 14:37:12 GMT 10
I actually think Apo the more interesting question is if the shielding is on effective healing or total healing because at 7k hps and 50% overheal its potentially a big number... I was reading somewhere that the bonus dmg affect for one of the Disc. Priest bubble effects was being changed from effective (landed or healed amount) heals to total (the cast amount) value. It may have been in 3.1 patch notes... will have to find that again. So, if that is changing for priests... yes it's a valid point. Imagine getting a dmg absorb bubble from a 40k crit Lay on Hands.. *drool* |
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Post by Rakshasi on Mar 25, 2009 6:06:47 GMT 10
Actually it's off topic but Divine Aegis already works this way for Disc... large overheals still give the complete bonus. Of course no word on how or what kind of healing bonus the mace will have... but here's the discpriest mechanic... from forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12891376127&sid=1"Q. Does Divine Aegis work with overhealing? A. Yes it does. Another common myth is that you critically strike and it is overheal, it does not apply to Divine Aegis absorption. This is untrue. Divine Aegis absorbs damage based on the ENTIRETY of a critical strike, regardless of whether or not none, any, or all of it is overhealing. " |
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Post by seveneves on Mar 25, 2009 10:21:22 GMT 10
Unsure if they are Boss or Raid helpers. The fact that the quest requires you to leave "at least 1 up" implies it's there to hinder you and not help ;-). “This can only be completed in Heroic mode and only if at least one Ulduar Watcher is not assisting you.” It's really not that important, but it definitely looks like they help you. You actually need to leave one down, not up. Either way, I'm looking forward to some wipefests that will bring everyone back to earth. |
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Post by bobelf on Mar 26, 2009 7:27:47 GMT 10
HooRay for wipes!
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Post by castus on Mar 26, 2009 9:31:36 GMT 10
Well, at least you can always count on Bob to add useful and insightful comments to important discussions...
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